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ulapz Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


i read it, she clearly says that there is not enough evidence for HER to believe it, some people are harder to convince than others.
7/20/2009, 12:53 pm Link to this post  
 
AguyinaRPG Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


As i apparently started this whole thing (cough), I'll just restate what I have already said really quickly.

I don't think that homosexuality is unnatural because of not only the amplitude of which it happens but also because I know gay people. They aren't doing the devil's work or trying to convert anyone. They were born that way, leave them alone, you're all intolerant *******s if you can't accept that.

I have not come to this assumption based on anything I was taught, only by what I have learned. All the knuckleheads which were taught to not accept such a thing really need to look into it personally instead of dis-apphiliating (not a word) themselves from homosexuals because of how they were raised.
7/20/2009, 2:30 pm Link to this post Send Email to AguyinaRPG   Send PM to AguyinaRPG
 
Dusky Beauty Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


quote:

ULAPZ wrote:

i read it, she clearly says that there is not enough evidence for HER to believe it, some people are harder to convince than others.



Yeah, I demand pesky things like long term consistent case studies to confirm or deny facts. That penguin thing had me wondering for a while until one of them ended up choosing a female mate when he had the opportunity, and instead of weakening my hypothesis, it ended up strengthening it. If anyone has some legit research and case studies they want to bring up, please feel free.

quote:

Pogolizard wrote:
...dusky, You point out that you believe that "humanity has a sense of conscience and intellect that is not rivaled in all the animal kingdom"

If this is true, doesn't it mean that if humans choose to be homosexual, then it's okay? Or do you believe that homosexuality is simply a lack of mates?

Many homosexual people would point out to you in no uncertain terms that their choice was indeed a choice, and not simply "plan B".


I suggest that the fact that we are capable of having a choice rather than being slaves to our baser instincts debunks the idea that people who are gay are victims of their nature. It is evidently indeed a choice to act on urges or abstain from sating those urges.
In the world of Christian homosexual counseling, homosexual behavior and urges are considered to be sinful and undesirable. There are two types of clients of this counseling: young people forced into it by their parents or guardians (which I personally disagree with) and people who don't like who they are in the homosexual lifestyle. The goal of this counseling isn't to turn the male patient straight and expect them to magically be attracted to women. It's a slow process of becoming the person you want to be for God and yourself, finding that love Jesus has for you in spite of your urges and accepting that love just as much as getting away from the self destructive cycle.

This may mean the patient will someday feel appropriate love and attraction for an opposite gendered mate, or they may never feel that attraction and choose to remain celibate.

For me, this really drives home the heart of the choices involved in pursuing a gay lifestyle.

Humans are capable of making choices. Good ones that are healthy for themselves and others around them, as well as destructive and hurtful choices.
From where I sit I don't see anything positive about a person choosing that sort of life for themselves.
For one thing, the gay community is extremely centered around sex. Not only is being so sexually focused terrible for anyone with any sort of orientation, but it's extremely harmful to people who are simply craving love and acceptance. If you feel misunderstood, rejected, or have self esteem issues, the last thing you want to do is be involved with and identified with people who place so much importance on sexual acts that it defines them. I don't even feel it necessary to bring up success chances of long term relationships of gay couples versus straight, or the sobering high rates of HIV, depression and suicide in the gay community. Furthermore, my religious belief is that living a life that is apart from God's will and commands is also a serious drawback that keeps you divorced from God, something we recognize as a serious problem in and of itself. (And I do not presume that most people reading this share my belief, and I clarify that it is not something I am superimposing on anyone, just coloring my POV completly)

In the animal kingdom, homosexuality crops up with a lack of mates, and I suspect among very young adults and teens, it may be a way to turn for people who either have trouble finding an opposite partner they feel like they can have a relationship with, or people that have trouble trusting or relating to people of the opposite sex.

quote:

AguyinaRPG wrote:
I don't think that homosexuality is unnatural because of not only the amplitude of which it happens but also because I know gay people. They aren't doing the devil's work or trying to convert anyone. They were born that way, leave them alone, you're all intolerant *******s if you can't accept that.

I have not come to this assumption based on anything I was taught, only by what I have learned. All the knuckleheads which were taught to not accept such a thing really need to look into it personally instead of dis-apphiliating (not a word) themselves from homosexuals because of how they were raised.



I'm not suggesting that gay people on the whole are evil and spreading the devil's lies willfully. Quite the opposite.
I can understand why Christianity is painted with the intolerant homophobe brush. Scripture does not allow us to accept it (or any other sin for that matter) as the world at large would like us to. In addition to that, "religious" type people have long had a problem getting dirty by associating with sinners. In Jesus's time it was gentiles and tax collectors the pharisees shunned. In our day and age its the gay and sexually immoral that no one is willing to associate with.

The truly homophobic that hide behind Christianity and insist that God hates gays, say hateful things, and use it as an excuse to commit violence are missing the point of the whole Christian experience imo.

I was never taught to hate on gays and lesbians. I was told once and only once in passing during the big parental sex talk of my childhood that it existed, and God did not approve and the next time I heard my mother mention homosexuals it was to tell me one of her coworkers was gay 2 weeks ago.

Like many other people here I too have had gay friends who were good and kind people that I respected very much. I was never uncivil, and treated them like I would have anyone else, but whenever a question came up about religion, I answered honestly, would not compromise what I believed to be true, and when asked directly if I thought they were going to hell I answered honestly:
"No more or less than any of my other non Christian friends. If you want advice on changing it, talk to me."



Last edited by Dusky Beauty, 7/20/2009, 4:06 pm


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UO: Reatha Starfell, CoH: Dusk Fairchild, WoW: Qurr, Pursia, Flaire, WAR: Dusk Starfelle
7/20/2009, 2:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dusky Beauty   Send PM to Dusky Beauty ICQ AIM
 
Bearanimations Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


Man dusky, you keep beating me to the punch, not much more that I can say that you haven't already covered. /applaud.

@ Aguy: I'm really sensing some hate in your posts, and would be very happy if you would please stop, we're not doing that to you, why shouldn't you reciprocate that back to us. Thanks.
7/20/2009, 5:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Bearanimations   Send PM to Bearanimations
 
John DeJ Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


Let's see, where to begin.

For what I believe, homosexuality is an unnatural act. Based on the following, it isn't just something gained at birth:

quote:


The national organization P-FLAG ("Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays") offers a booklet prepared with the assistance of Dr. Clinton Anderson of the American Psychological Association. Entitled, "Why Ask Why? Addressing the Research on Homosexuality and Biology," the pamphlet says:

    "To date, no researcher has claimed that genes can determine sexual orientation. At best, researchers believe that there may be a genetic component. No human behavior, let alone sexual behavior, has been connected to genetic markers to [sign in to see URL], like every other behavior, is undoubtedly influenced by both biological and societal factors."




It is biological AND societal.

So my belief stems by scientific and religious. I think of male and females as puzzle pieces. They fit together nicely and make one whole piece.

Furthermore, I have researched this topic at great lengths, talking not only to friends, but compiling data on the matter.

As for relating actions to other animals, people falsely go under the assumption that what happens in a small minority of animals means it can't be just a human problem.

With very, very rare exceptions, animals do not settle down with a life mate. Those that do are always male-female.

Look at the actions of dogs. A female alpha will mount other females. Are we to believe this is because the female is confused at what sex it is? Or is it because of a dominance issue? We can't relate what ANY other animal does as evidence for human behavior.

I believe this so strongly that nothing could convince me otherwise, other than God Himself saying I was wrong.
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AguyinaRPG Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


"OMG RESERCH THIS, RESRCH TAT"

If you do believe in a higher-power, you know science can't explain everything. Have any of you ever talked to a gay person? Do they seem bad? When you add the human element to the equation, you get something that doesn't fall within the views of social science.
7/20/2009, 7:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to AguyinaRPG   Send PM to AguyinaRPG
 
Ambelinee Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


1: personal opinion:I believe a persons sexuality is part of them from birth waiting to be discovered and understood as they grow.I also believe that what society sees as the 'gay' lifestyle is immoral in its promiscuity.

2:reasons: As a gay woman who has struggled with this issue for the last 20yrs I have strong personal experiences to draw upon. I feel that a lot of people only see the hedonistic side of gayness. Not all of us are promiscuous. I have been in a monogamous relationship for the past 9 yrs and I know many people , woman and men ,who are in stable longterm [sign in to see URL] relationship with my partner is based on companionship and love.
From my personal experience I do not believe it is a lifestyle you can choose. I tried for a long time not be gay it only caused harm and hurt to the people I knew and to myself.

3:My opinion is from longterm personal experience it isnt going to change.

I am happy to answer any questions as best as I can providing they are asked respectfully and are not to explicit.




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Dusky Beauty Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


quote:

AguyinaRPG wrote:
.. Do they seem bad? When you add the human element to the equation, you get something that doesn't fall within the views of social science.



I didn't say anyone was bad. I established they had a choice and in my opinion it's a bad choice. A nice person can easily make a bad choice.
I know a man who is a very "good person." He likes to help people with anything he can, he is very kind, well spoken, and is in the emergency medical field. He stops to help people he sees on the road with car trouble, helps old ladies cross streets, and opens doors for women, yet this same man also made a very bad choice in the life he wants to live at the expense of everyone but himself and his friends that want to support his "whatever makes you happy" cliche'.

Bad choices are bad choices because they damage us and those close to us.

No one wants to be reduced to a statistic but the numbers don't lie. They exist to give us a reasonable expectation of what to, well, expect.
[sign in to see URL] reports that young homosexuals are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than their peers, and other sources with similar information are easy to find.

You may have acquaintances that seem happy and well adjusted for the moment, just as I have had friends addicted to meth who seemed happy and well adjusted, but it's no indication that a lifestyle that is pretty widely studied to be destructive is good for them.

And why the studies? why the demand for evidence?
Because I base my views on what is "true" on reasonable conclusions we can draw from facts. If you don't, that is your prerogative, but far as I know it's a pretty widely accepted way to define a semblance of reality. Faith does extend to accepting things we can't always understand or see or touch (weather it be belief in an invisible pink unicorn or aliens that seed life on crystals), but in my humble opinion accepting something as good and well that appears to be bad for you has more to do with blind stupidity than "faith."
As our parents learned in their lifetime, cigarettes were not in fact healthy because they relaxed you. In the 50s and 60s they were widely accepted as good for your body, yet women's magazines cautioned pregnant women not to smoke or be around smoke, and there were indications it made people sick that went ignored.

Also a thank you to Ambelinee. Though I do not agree with your position, I tried to take great care that this issue be discussed in a healthy respectful way. Anything you have to add from your experience could only serve to enrich the discussion.

Last edited by Dusky Beauty, 7/21/2009, 12:00 am


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UO: Reatha Starfell, CoH: Dusk Fairchild, WoW: Qurr, Pursia, Flaire, WAR: Dusk Starfelle
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pogolizard Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


I haven't got anything new to post, but aguyina (and all the others who haven't posted) would you please mind telling us what piece of evidence or proven fact would change your mind?

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7/21/2009, 2:48 am Link to this post Send Email to pogolizard   Send PM to pogolizard
 
AguyinaRPG Profile
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Re: The Gay Thread


quote:

Dusky Beauty wrote:


I didn't say anyone was bad. I established they had a choice and in my opinion it's a bad choice. A nice person can easily make a bad choice.



No they did not. It's not a choice. If they did have the choice they would be normal and I can ablige that from one of my sister's gay friends. Actually 2 of them, but let me set aside this specific one.

He is a dashing man, pretty much envy of many girls in out school. He has kissed girls before. He has talked about his sexuality with his friends a lot. It's not about a lack of females or the fact he wants to "go against nature" (he's not). Not his choice, born that way.

Before you go into "Then he's just confused and doesn't really know better", shut up. You haven't known better than to do anything in your power to hate this since day 1.
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