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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


In a nutshell John.

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UO: Reatha Starfell, CoH: Dusk Fairchild, WoW: Qurr, Pursia, Flaire, WAR: Dusk Starfelle
5/26/2009, 7:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dusky Beauty   Send PM to Dusky Beauty ICQ AIM
 
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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


It's a little more than perspective; hence they are different Christian doctrines. As this is a thread about analogies, I will go out on a limb and use one myself.

Suppose I created an artificial intelligence. I programmed this AI to be terminated at an appointed moment of my choosing. The time comes and the AI has been causing havoc, so it deserves to "die" per se.

Compare this to a situation where I do not interfere with the life of this AI apart from creating it in the first place. We will assume that I have knowledge of this program's future actions. I know what it is going to do, but I love it anyway as my own creation. Eventually it develops a hatred for me as its creator and decides to terminate itself because it does not want to be with me anymore.

Is there not a difference? (I know there will be minor differences, since no analogy is perfect, but I am talking ontological differences here.)
I think there is a profound difference. One preserves the notion of my goodness as creator, whereas the other makes me seem, if not malicious, coldly just.

Last edited by Indefatigable, 5/26/2009, 7:43 pm


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If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate. ~Unknown

Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it... ~Galadriel (Film)
5/26/2009, 7:38 pm Link to this post Send Email to Indefatigable   Send PM to Indefatigable
 
John DeJ Profile
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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


We make things more complicate than it really is. I still say it is a matter of perspective.

You could say it is like the transitive rule in math a=b, b=c, thus a=c

God created me.
I will either rise or fall in His graces.
thus
God created me to raise or fall in His graces.

And since He knows everything, He knows this before I was created.

Seems pretty clear to me.

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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


It is probably true that we often over complicate things for the sake of argument but I don't think this is the case here. This is an important question about the nature of God. While there is no reason to divide the church on such matters, if we are to truly have faith seeking understanding, it is important to grapple with the tough questions and not ignore their presence. The purpose of theological dialogue is to try to come to a deeper understanding of our Creator.

Also, the use of the transitive property as a logical structure is appropriate, but the way it was employed is not valid. It says
p->q
r->s
p->s

The logical structure does not remain intact when the only thing you bring down is the personal pronoun. You would have to modify it to say

God created me.
I have been created to rise or fall in my creator's graces.
God created me to rise or fall in His graces.

In which case the argument that God creates some for destruction or salvation is implicit in the second premise.

Last edited by Indefatigable, 5/27/2009, 7:44 am


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If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate. ~Unknown

Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it... ~Galadriel (Film)
5/27/2009, 7:16 am Link to this post Send Email to Indefatigable   Send PM to Indefatigable
 
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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


As a new person to these forums, I will assume you didn't know about my math background. There are many things you can correct me on, but on math, no.

The Transitive Property of Equality is exactly as I stated it.

What you are stating is the Transitive Property of Inequalities.

I never said we should or shouldn't question things. We cannot fathom the mind of God, it is beyond mortal abilities.

Everything that has happen, is happening, or will happen is by God's will.
5/27/2009, 11:43 am Link to this post Send Email to John DeJ   Send PM to John DeJ
 
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Re: Some Christian analogies of mine


Forgive my ambiguity. The transitive property you stated was perfectly correct. The "it" I referred to was your statement, not the property itself. I was symbolically representing your statement so as to show that it was incompatible with the transitive property. Sorry for the confusion.

As finite beings, no, we cannot fathom the infinite mind of God in its entirety. However, should we not try? God is inexhaustible mystery (that is mystery in the form of revelation, not mystery in the form of a question mark). This merely means that we can begin to understand the mind of God and still explore his nature ad infinitum without developing a complete understanding. All I suggest is that there is a difference between something being a matter of perspective and something that, at the crux of the matter, deals with the nature of God.

As for whether or not all events are willed by God; that is an interesting question. Sure, all events are "willed" by God, but does his will include limiting Himself by giving real free will to His creatures, allowing Himself to be betrayed? Or is God merely playing out a scenario in His God-sized sandbox in which we make "decisions", but are really preprogrammed by God to die or live. I vote for the former.


---
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate. ~Unknown

Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it... ~Galadriel (Film)
5/27/2009, 12:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to Indefatigable   Send PM to Indefatigable
 


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